College Tuition - A numbers issue vs a percentage issue


#24

College tends to give you a very simplistic and naive view of the world, especially when it comes to crime, sociology, and psychology. Thus you also think there are very simple solutions to issues involving these things. Aka your pollyanna and very naive but you think you know it all.

For instance its one thing to take CJ classes and learn about the cycle of violence and how women tend to stay with their abusers. You think in your pollyanna world view that they just need someone to explain this to them and that you will be that person who makes a difference and changes it. All it really takes to shatter this pollyanna view is to go to your first domestic, have the victim curse you for arresting their spouse instead of magically snapping your fingers and changing him / her into someone they’ve never been, and then filing complaints on you that you lied about what they told you happened so that you could make some sort of mythical arrest quota (or if its a minority arrest a minority).


#25

Wouldn’t it logically follow that substantial increases in enrollment would necessitate a need for more facilities and instructional staff? And as indicated in those two articles there was a drop off in enrollment afterwards after the Vietnam war era. The fact is that education has been watered down most specifically in the ridiculous number of degree programs offered. Regarding how educated someone is after going to college, well that really all depends on how one defines educated? If you define sitting in any degree program for four more years of ones life as being more educated than yes that person is now more educated. Furthermore regarding that most people are going to forget the overwhelming majority of what they did learn during that time. So if being more educated means having to remember a substantial amount that was taught to a person during that time then no that person is not substantially more educated.


#26

Part of the problem, which is not discussed as much, is us the American people. How many American parents want their kid to be a plumber, a mechanic, a welder, etc.? Everyone wants their kid to go to college and become a doctor or a lawyer. That’s the “American dream.” Regarding the kids, well as someone who has worked in this profession I can tell you that they are constantly bombarded with the mantra “you have to go to college” from so many in this profession. So you have a situation in which now the parents and their kids are basically brainwashed and choose colleges and degrees without thinking about the practicality of the situation regarding the costs and what they are going to do after graduating.


#27

Book learning is not a replacement for experience. Film at 11.


#28

Here’s the thing about “Gender studies” majors. I know it’s everyone’s favorite goofy degree - but it’s a bad example for whatever your point is.

There are very, very few people who actually get a degree in Gender Studies. Less than a tenth of a percent of graduates.

Those that do get undergraduate degrees in Gender Studies tend to make $65-$70,000 a year. Usually they’re teachers.


#29

I’ve always wondered who gets all of these degrees some mention in fields like “gender” or “women’s studies”, & suspected the number to be very few.

Here it is, percentage of degrees awarded by field:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/09/310114739/whats-your-major-four-decades-of-college-degrees-in-1-graph


#30

State uni. I know you find liberals obnoxious but financially it’s more sound to simply be annoyed.


#31

I think there are cases to be made regarding the pressure to have a college education, and also the value of vocational alternatives.

But that doesn’t address the question of why the annual college tuition price tag has gone from being a manageable percentage of a family’s income to being in excess - sometimes 2x - a family’s annual income. And it seems to be an issue that a lot of pols make noise about, but no one is willing to investigate.


#32

I tend to agree with this, but consider that most people don’t pay the cost listed in the brochure. It’s still expensive, though.


#33

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Here is the State School in Virginia (well ranked nationally) that my daughter attended.

To say that it’s 2X a families income would mean that the family makes $11,863 per year for in-state rate. I don’t see that in reality for the average family.

Especially if a student is local and doesn’t have to pay room and board, that takes the $26,000 down to around $16,000 per year.

(My son attended a local school at much lower overall cost. My daughter went away to school and we actually found after the first year she could save money by renting (shared) and apartment with lower food costs then the school was charging.

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#34

Did you get a chance to read any of the articles I sent you earlier in the thread? Also I assume you’re talking about a family income of about $60,000 per year? And hence the total four year cost of about $120,000 (i.e. $30,000 per year).


#35

Fair enough but we could just expand it to liberal arts degrees in general. Getting an undergrad degree in sociology, criminal justice, psychology, philosophy, or any other liberal arts degree is basically worthless unless its just a stepping stone to grad school or law school. While you do learn a lot about how the world works that knowledge doesn’t translate well into actual job skills.

BTW, I have a bachelors in Criminal Justice and minor in Sociology so I know of what I speak here. I ended up with a decent paying job but my degrees weren’t required for it as most of the people I work with don’t have degrees at all.


#36

Agreed. I have little sympathy for those crying about college costs when they are CHOOSING an extremely pricey private school instead of a state school that is a fraction of the cost.


#37

I don’t disagree. But that’s not the point of a liberal arts degree. It’s not supposed to be vocational training.


#38

With Bernie Sanders, and Alaxandria Cortez’s Socialism everything is free!
Free College Tuition For Everyone!!!

Of course if College is free for everyone, I would think that the privilege of being
able to go to a Ivy league school like Harvard, or Yale, and the honor of it, would go
out the window. I’m guessing it would be considered racist and sexist of ivy league school how they pick people based on merits of smarts. Like a 4.0 GPA, and things like that.

I wonder if in the Socialist dream world if only women, non-whites, and only white Democrats would be accepted into college? Welcome to the future!!! lol.


#39

Are you being serious?


#40

should I just keep saying yes? Or I could keep saying No automatically
like Pelosi and the Democratic Party?

What ever happened to the Democratic Party? They use to always say that
they wanted to Unify the American people and politics?

But how can one Unify people and things, when they’re not willing to work
with Trump and the Republicans, but automatically just say No all of the time?

I’m just saying? ya know?


#41

Take away federal loans for college fee and the price will be lower big time.


#42

Also make them back student loans, make them stand behind their product like private have to do. That would shake things up big time!


#43

Lets be honest, going to Harvard or Yale means little except for your economic status. A Harvard lawyer isn’t necessarily any better versed in the law than a state school lawyer because the current law and case law being taught is EXACTLY THE SAME at both schools. Its just the pedigree on your diploma that matters and thats utterly dependent upon your parents ability to pay for you to go to the Ivy league school. In some science fields you definitely can make a case for the cutting edge research being done but the basic science you learn is the same regardless of college.

Thats why I’m so adamant that unless you are the elite of the elite either economically or academically (thus scholarships) there is zero reason to go to an elite private school when you can learn the same skills at a cheaper state school. Most employers outside of the beltway won’t care beyond the fact you got a degree in a needed field.